CLA adopts new fighting rules

[thegreenbastard]

A press release from the CLA has surfaced today that will see fighting in all CLA leagues from Minor to Senior enforced by much harsher penalties.

Starting in 2013, any player who engages in a fight will be given a major penalty, game misconduct penalty and be ejected from the game. The only caveat to the rule, is if there is a clear institgator then the non-offending player will not receive a game-misconduct penalty.

NOTE- this rule doesn't not apply to the CLAX league nor the NLL as they do not fall under CLA jurisdiction.

NOTE 1.A- Reports have been circluating that the WLA may not abide by these rules, as one Governor commented to IL Indoor however, that will have to be decided by a board of governors meeting that will take place in the coming days.


Find the full press release below.




The Canadian Lacrosse Association (CLA) and its Board of Directors hereby declare that they are opposed to fighting in the game of lacrosse. A Task Force was established in the spring 2012 to examine the policies and rule changes required to give effect to this declaration. The Task Force reported back to the CLA's Board of Directors with recommendations in Fall 2012 at the Annual General Meeting.

As a result of the recommendations, the CLA Board of Directors has approved changes to Rule 45 in the Box Lacorsse Rule and Situation Handbook that positions Canadian lacrosse on the international stage as a world leader in maintaining the integrity of the game.

Here's what you need to know about the rule change - the approved changes are in bold.

Rule 45 – Fighting
(a) A major penalty and game misconduct penalty shall be assessed to any player/goalkeeper who fights. A goalkeeper penalty shall be served by a player who was on the floor at the time of the infraction. The major penalty must be served in its duration.

(b) If there is an instigator or clear aggressor in a fight, a major penalty and a game misconduct plus any other penalties shall be assessed to the offending player(s). Where an instigator or clear aggressor penalty is assessed the non-offending player shall not receive a game misconduct under 45 (a).




So what does this mean?

After lengthy discussion and revisions the updated rule enforces that fighting is not tolerated. If an athlete, at any level, takes part in a fight, they will be removed from the game.

Fighting in the sport is an unnecessary risk - it is a dangerous activity for any athlete to be a part of. Incidents of concussions can increase with every fight that happens; it is becoming more apparent that a blow to the head area has the potential to cause severe and long-term injury. The health and safety of all participants in Canada’s national summer sport is amongst the leading concerns of the Canadian Lacrosse Association - changes to Rule 45 demonstrates our collective assertion that fighting in the game will not be tolerated and lends additional protection to our participants.

"The CLA Board of Directors took a stance today and we are positive that others will follow. The rule change allows our athletes to showcase the sport that we all love and keeps the focus on the aspects that make our sport so great - speed, athleticism, and skill. Lacrosse is the quickest game on two feet, played by some of the most passionate and athletic participants in any sport." commented Joey Harris, CLA President. "The stance that our board took against fighting in our sport holds true to the values of Canadian lacrosse and the CLA. Our values are our HEART - Health • Excellence •Accountability • Respect •Teamwork - they guide how we lead the sport both nationally and internationally."

The rule change will come into effect in the 2013 lacrosse season.
The 2013 Canadian Lacrosse Association Rule Book will be available in the early new year through the head office of the CLA.

[RockStar#666]

All this does is change one paragraph in the CLA's model rulebook.

The elite leagues all had slight variations anyway, and can probably opt to ignore this and carry on with whatever they want.

Let's see if they want to get rid of fighting as much as the braintrust at head office seems to.


Can't help but wonder if this is fueled by the same issues that lead to the prompt creation/enforcement of an anti-drug policy.

[thegreenbastard]

if the "elite leagues" opt not to use these CLA imposed rules, they may be with out CLA insurance, refs and face serious reprimands....

[RockStar#666]

Fine. I'm not connected, and really don't have a clue of everything that's at stake if, say, OLA Junior 'A' decided they want to stick with last year's rules.

I don't even really care that the fighting's on the way out. Most of it was pointless anyway.

The only thing I don't like is that the Evanses of the world will have even less fear of come-uppance, and pest play might become even more effective.

[thegreenbastard]

Originally Posted by RockStar#666

The only thing I don't like is that the Evanses of the world will have even less fear of come-uppance, and pest play might become even more effective.

That is everyone's, including the players worry as well..

Helloooo Cheap Shots

[Boxlaxgoalie]

I feel that this ban is actual going to have a bigger negative affect for the CLA than letting fighting happening.

I also believe that this rule came into discussion because of the brawl that happened this past year between Nanaimo and Coquitlam.

But by them taking out fighting I believe you will see more of these types of brawls because I think that like what had already been mention the cheap shots that are going to take place know are going to happen and the more it happens during a game because it just going to be a sea saw battle back and forth with the cheap shots at some points that you are going to see all hell brake loose.

Also TheGreenBastard though i read on your twitter earlier that the WLA wasn't going to fallow the fighting rules during the regular season and playoffs just during the Mann Cup.7

here is an article on fighting in the BCHL and why their commissionar believes that fighting isn't the worst thing in sports

http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/sport...257/story.html

[washingtonfan]

Personally i enjoy the odd fight in a game. It can actually change the outcome of a game. How many times have you seen a good fight change the momentum of the game and end up reflecting on the score board.
Also, if these new rules come into play, does it not make the last 2 minutes of a game have more of a possibility of a brawl with possible injuries to players? If a game misconduct and a 5 minute major is the result, why not wait until the last 30 seconds of a game and then go full tilt at that point? To me, this will only bring less fans to the games with this rule change and we need more fans to the games. Hopefully, the NLL and the WLA do not adopt these rules at all including the Mann Cup.

[Laxwizz]

I really don't have much of an issue with the rule as it applies to Junior lacrosse.
The part that makes it work is in the case of an instigator the non offending player stays in the game, a rule I wish was applied to hockey as well.
There are other ways to reduce fighting in both hockey and lacrosse without a rule like this, this is just the easiest way to do it by pushing a blanket rule on everyone.
I personally think this rule should be optional for Senior leagues to adopt if they choose, there are other subtle differences between ola and wla that go against the CLA rule book as well.

[thrillis]

I was under the impression that the leagues can operate by their own by-laws and rule interpretations during their own play, but when it came to the tournaments (man, minto founders etc) that is when the CLA's rules took precedence and things must be amalgamated. Which is why you have slight rule differences between the eastern and western leagues and some sometimes harsh realizations to the rule changes come the canadian tournaments. Oh well, See what happens.

While I understand the worry for the cheap shots, if the refs were far more prudent in their calling of the hacks, slashes and stick work that players use as standard defence procedure, it wouldn't be too much of a worry. I would say all leagues also need to institute severe penalties on intent to injure calls when it comes to one handed whacks, wrap arounds that catch players by the neck etc. Those kinds of calls would tighten up what is allowed and deter players from using them. you want to give a solid whack with one hand while chasing down a player on a break or give him a solid shove from behind as he takes the shot? sure, but you get an automatic 5 and a 10 misconduct for doing so.

[laxhawker]

Like any governing body the CLA continues to make stupid rules up to justify their existance. They continue change things that don't need change like Nets, now they have to have a flat bar base....never considering what would do more damage if run into huumm a round pipe that might hurt a bit but its round or a flat piece of steel that can jab into you....lawsuit potential. Every year we have a goalie equipment change, instead of more diligent refs measuring it pre like before now they just throw the player out of the game. Helmet and face meask rules all designed to try and aliveiate them of risk of lawsuit....how many have they faced to date? My guess the answer is zero.
What really needs to be changed are the meek minded that are running the CLA, each Province has its own governing bodies that we pay why do we need the the CLA? They remind me alot of Canadian politics....they are the "senate" another word for USELESS. Do like the eskinos do with old useless pee put them on an iceberg and push them out to sea.

[Laxwizz]

"The 15-20% of the population that feel that fighting is part of the game, that’ll be the biggest fight to try to turn that. The other 80% want to have a fast, clean game."


I'd like to know where they got these numbers, I'd suggest they are more the opposite .
This shows the disconnect between CLA and everyone else.

[RockStar#666]

Originally Posted by laxhawker

Like any governing body the CLA continues to make stupid rules up to justify their existance..........

I'm still wondering if this sweeping comes from the same place as the drug testing that surfaced at this year's Mann tourney.

If so, I hope they're getting lots of money from the feds for all the tinkering that's been required.

[Mr Boo]

Originally Posted by Laxwizz

I'd like to know where they got these numbers, I'd suggest they are more the opposite .

I'd like to know where you got your numbers. Not saying you're wrong, but if you are going to call them out for giving numbers, you need to be prepared to back yours up with stats, or explain why your "gut feeling" is any better than theirs.

[Boxlaxgoalie]

Originally Posted by laxhawker

Like any governing body the CLA continues to make stupid rules up to justify their existance. They continue change things that don't need change like Nets, now they have to have a flat bar base....never considering what would do more damage if run into huumm a round pipe that might hurt a bit but its round or a flat piece of steel that can jab into you....lawsuit potential. Every year we have a goalie equipment change, instead of more diligent refs measuring it pre like before now they just throw the player out of the game. Helmet and face meask rules all designed to try and aliveiate them of risk of lawsuit....how many have they faced to date? My guess the answer is zero.
What really needs to be changed are the meek minded that are running the CLA, each Province has its own governing bodies that we pay why do we need the the CLA? They remind me alot of Canadian politics....they are the "senate" another word for USELESS. Do like the eskinos do with old useless pee put them on an iceberg and push them out to sea.

You are spot on with and thing is that Fighting rule brought into place is nothing compared to what this new net rule could cause problems. In the CLA article its saying that

"He says that lacrosse is “actually losing players because of the fighting part of the game. Players are leaving.” The CLA believes that by removing—or at least reducing—the fear that they’ll have to fight if they want to play lacrosse, it will help to create a safe environment that will draw more players into the sport"

Know going back to the new net rule i know of small association in BC around a 100 players in their whole minor system. The city bought new nets I think it was around 2 years ago and I know that city doesn't want to go out and by new nets because their nets are almost brand new to begin with. So I have heard that if the association wants to continue playing that they are going to have to spend the money on the new nets that they don't have.

With the new net rule coming into place because they want to take the pegs out of them why the hell do you have to buy brand new nets most places the pegs are rubber or put into place they aren't attached to the net so why buy the new nets CLA cut a deal with a company to make them all. You have to buy the nets from 1 of 3 companies all these companies are in Ontario.

Back to the city not wanting to buy new nets. The guy in charge of the rink could use the same company that they use to make their hockey nets and it would cost $1000 cheaper if they were to get it done from them. Why is the company making them such a big deal when as long as they conform to the specifications that CLA has and that company has enough insurance to deal with lawsuits why should that company matter.

Sorry for the rant.

[Boxlaxgoalie]

Question about the instigator this rule makes no sense at all.

Situation know lets say a player takes someone head off with a high stick, and a player comes in and to protect his teammate and the 2 guys fight. Know lets say the guy that throws the high stick turtles during it.

You are going to give the guy that came in to protect his teammate 5 mins for Fighting and Instigating and 2 game misconducts.

While the guy that throws the high stick could get what ever pentaly he gets for the high stick and 5 mins for fighting but because their is a clear instigator he won't get kicked out.

I used the high stick example here because you rarely see refs give match/attempt to injury pentalies on high sticking.

One last thing going back to the Nanaimo vs Coquitlam brawl had a friends who brother was on coquitlam and was told that all their players involved only got a 1 game suspension for that. So you go from allow players to fight and letting them have bench clearing brawls and only getting a game suspension to not allowing players to fight at all.

[Dave S-C]

Originally Posted by thegreenbastard

Helloooo Cheap Shots

This was my very first thought.

Originally Posted by thrillis

I was under the impression that the leagues can operate by their own by-laws and rule interpretations during their own play, but when it came to the tournaments (man, minto founders etc) that is when the CLA's rules took precedence and things must be amalgamated.

My understanding is leagues can opt to have stricter/tougher rules than what the CLA stipulates - but the league rules cannot be any more lax (excuse the pun) than what the CLA rule dictates.

So, a league can opt to toughen up penalties - such as automatic double minors for something, or extra suspensions for infractions - but they cannot not call certain penalties they don't like.

[Dave S-C]

Originally Posted by thrillis

While I understand the worry for the cheap shots, if the refs were far more prudent in their calling of the hacks, slashes and stick work that players use as standard defence procedure, it wouldn't be too much of a worry.

If only that were the case at the lower levels, where the quality and ability of the referees is quite variable and inconsistent from game to game - and often within the game itself.

[Laxwizz]

Originally Posted by Mr Boo

I'd like to know where you got your numbers. Not saying you're wrong, but if you are going to call them out for giving numbers, you need to be prepared to back yours up with stats, or explain why your "gut feeling" is any better than theirs.

I was going off of approximate numbers from the polls that I've seen from Insider in the past.
Of course I'm going off of memory so I could be off a little.

You can also see it in the stands by the reaction of fans during altercations.

[silvanthalas]

Originally Posted by Laxwizz

I'd like to know where they got these numbers, I'd suggest they are more the opposite .
This shows the disconnect between CLA and everyone else.

No, I think it shows the disconnect (and perhaps some of the lack of popularity) between box lacrosse/hockey fans and those of other sports.

NFL, NBA, and MLB don't tolerate fighting. NHL does. Maybe it's just coincidence, but the NHL is a distant 4th in that group.

Do I enjoy the fighting in hockey and box lax? Yeah. My first Mammoth game was watching Stilley get into a fight with somebody before the opening face off, and I was hooked.

But I can also live without fighting in both sports, too.

That said, I really don't understand CLA doing this with the Seniors. Juniors, yeah (and the same is slowly happening with hockey, taking the fighting out with the kids). But Senior? Maybe they should've done this one step at a time...

[RockStar#666]

Originally Posted by Laxwizz

...........You can also see it in the stands by the reaction of fans during altercations.

Yup. All 114 of them are yelling for blood. What we need is more fights to keep these folks happy. Then we'll always have crowds of like 114, which is the most awesome thing about this sport.

It's a two-edged sword. There is a vocal minority (or maybe it's a vocal majority, I dunno), that cannot imagine lacrosse without fighting.

There are also lots and lots and lots and lots of people who don't like fighting in their sports. I call these people soccer or baseball fans, and most of the time, I really don't care much what they think. That said, maybe some of them would actually watch and enjoy box lacrosse if it didn't have so many knuckle-dragging elements in it. I guess if they really want to grow the game, they will have to do things differently than they have for the past 30 years.

As stated, I don't care much one way or the other. Some of the cachet for me is that the circle of lacrosse people is small and not growing too quickly.

The only thing I'm going to miss is whatever satisfaction I get when an Evans-esque player finally irks an opponent enough to get his lid popped and his jaw socked.

We'll see.

[BClark]

Originally Posted by silvanthalas

No, I think it shows the disconnect (and perhaps some of the lack of popularity) between box lacrosse/hockey fans and those of other sports.

NFL, NBA, and MLB don't tolerate fighting. NHL does. Maybe it's just coincidence, but the NHL is a distant 4th in that group.

Do I enjoy the fighting in hockey and box lax? Yeah. My first Mammoth game was watching Stilley get into a fight with somebody before the opening face off, and I was hooked.

But I can also live without fighting in both sports, too.

That said, I really don't understand CLA doing this with the Seniors. Juniors, yeah (and the same is slowly happening with hockey, taking the fighting out with the kids). But Senior? Maybe they should've done this one step at a time...

Don't get me wrong I am in no way a bible thumper I heard this quote and it stuck with me, It goes something like " the meek shall inherit the earth". The powers that be are trying to do this through sports and I say its bullsh*t, Mommys and daddys if your little johnny or Timmy can't handle the heat of lacrosse or hockey there are plenty of non contact sports for them like swimming of tennis. Stop trying to inflict your weak assed beliefs on the many who have loved this game inspite of its warts.
Banning fighting from our game that allows players to hit one and other with sticks where cheap shots will rise like hockey, where there isn't any reprisal for cheap shots because of the instigator rule, what do you think will happen to our game. Players will protect themselves with sticks to the throat, neck etc.
Leave our game alone, I have yet to hear of someone threatening to sue the CLA for a fight, stop pretending to be proactive. You are just trying to justify your existance and PAYCHECK.
Sorry about the rant (passion).
By the way there is no contact in basketball other then the odd slapp, more bench clearing brawls in baseball then lacrosse and hockey. ANd ask any linemen in football if he would rather fight or be continually cheap-shotted by the opponent each and every down cause the refs can't see into the pile.
Bruce

[Muayfc]

I can see a call like this for fights with a clear instigator and an basically unwilling participant (which happen way to often in lacrosse) but for any fight? Seems short sighted thinking to me.

[Boxlaxgoalie]

With that 80-20 number the CLA put out of fans not liking the fighting did they ask the players at all about this because i am sure that 80-20 number would be the other way around.

Also look at the world today they say people don't like the fighting but UFC is the fastest growing sport out their.

[Dave S-C]

Originally Posted by Boxlaxgoalie

With that 80-20 number the CLA put out of fans not liking the fighting did they ask the players at all about this because i am sure that 80-20 number would be the other way around.

Exactly. If this were an issue that came from the floor and not the stands, perhaps I could understand. But I hate it when rules are changed for the fans' interests over the players' interests.

This rule is going to do nothing at improving interest in the sport amongst non-existant fans - if anything, it's just going to piss off the existing fans there already are.

Originally Posted by Boxlaxgoalie

Also look at the world today they say people don't like the fighting but UFC is the fastest growing sport out their.

Very good point.

[Ortiz]

I agree with Laxhawker, why do we need the CLA? Joey Harris and his band of merry men are exactly like the Canadian Senate, they are standing at the Trough with their @$$es in the air feeding on the lacrosse fans/sponsors $$$.
Whether its the ridiculous rollout of changes to Helmet and Facemask's, the Nets Fiasco, the Drug testing at the Mann Cup debacle and now the Ban on fighting , this just proofs how out of touch this gentleman is with reality and how much lack of real leadership he has.
He claims 80/20 wants this, where is he making that figure up from. I've been going to WLA, Major Series , both Junior Leagues games for years, and I dont recall ever been asked to particiapte in a CLA Survey around this topic. All I know is what I see, when a fight breaks out in Canada, USA, the fans go nuts they love it.
Mr Harris strikes me as guy that has never even played our game at any high level, I could be wrong. I'm sure Winnipeg has a good Junior or Senior programs where he could have seen first hand the speed and violence of our game.
Im not sure who put this motion forward or where it came from, but it strikes me as a very good initiative for Minor Lacrosse. I'm sure the heads of the different provincial bodies were all quite excited about it. But were talking about Senior Lacrosse men aged 21 and above not children.

Maybe its time for the CLA to either look inward at its own leadership (or lack of) and or perhaps reach out and bring together the 4 major leagues from Ontario / BC ( Major. Senior / Junior) and see what these leagues think about this radical change. Were they even asked about these changes before they were announced, maybe someone else on the forum will know?

Mr Harris has a history of poor leadership on how the above initiatives were rolled out, so look for this fighting ban to be a huge mess, similar to everything else he's wrapped his arms around in the last few years.

Just have to read this string to see the frustration building on how this is effecting the real lacrosse fans.

Tito