2006 Fann Cup in Philly

Discussion in 'Fann Cup Forum' started by Hooligan, Jul 19, 2005.

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  1. Hooligan

    Hooligan Average Joe Millionaire

    Hey everyone,

    I know I've been quiet on here for a very long time, and to all those who I consider friends, I appologize for the silence.

    I want to thank everyone for an enjoyable, and thrilling Fann Cup 2005! Jess and I barely pulled our pennies together to make this trip, but it was worth every cent. Thanks especially to the Krewhawks for that great championship game! I wasn't there for the first two Fann Cups, but that was by far the best game I ever saw, or played in, ever. Rochester was by far the best team in the Fann Cup this year.

    Now, as for 2006, we're going Philly style!

    I know its very early, and maybe I'm still buzzing from this weekend, but its never too early to start thinking! I'm hoping to get suggestions from past Fann Cup organizers as to how you went about getting your tourneys arranged. If you could, please email me at: wingslacrosse@yahoo.com so I can get your suggestions. I'm looking for Bandit, Knabber, MacRazor, JareCanada, WhipperRocks, anyone who set up the Fann Cups in the past.

    The Wingnuts are all working very dilegently already thinking up ideas. We're less than 1 year away from the next one, and to me its never too early to get started.

    Thanks for any suggestions you can provide. Also, we should get some suggestions on this thread from the Philly faithful, as to any ideas they may have for the area!


    PS...we were also talking about possibly doing what Toronto did this year, and adding one or two other teams in Philly, to handle the possible spill-over of interested parties who wish to play. Its not certain now, but if there's any further information on extra Fann Cup teams, please check in here for information.
  2. thwingfan

    thwingfan Active Member

    Well said there. This was my first Fann Cup and I had a great time. Already looking forward to next year.
  3. D.Mal #18

    D.Mal #18 New Member

    My biggest suggestion would be to make the games themselves a two day event. Have the preliminaries on Saturday with the playoffs and final game on Sunday (or which ever days you want to have them on). With the number of teams playing it makes for a very long day and by the time the final game rolls around everyone is just totally exhausted. Splitting it into two days would give everyone a little time to recooperate before the playoffs.
  4. thwingfan

    thwingfan Active Member

    The way this is growing, if we end up having extra teams that will probably be a great idea.
  5. newlaxfan2

    newlaxfan2 New Member

    I'd like that idea, to split the games into two days, if players were fairly local to the tourney and didn't have to drive 8 hours on the Sunday. If players in the playoffs have to drive 8 hours after playing lax earlier in the day, the level of fatigue could be very dangerous. It's different with kids' tourneys -- the kids play but the parents do the driving.
  6. D.Mal #18

    D.Mal #18 New Member

    That's true, but with this getting as big as it is, it's going to be tough to find a reasonable solution that everyone is happy with. Are there any arenas in the Philly area that have multiple playing surfaces that there could be more than one game going on at the same time? That might cut down on the amount of floor time that's needed and if the schedule is worked out right each of the teams would have the same amount of rest between their games.

    I'm glad I don't have to try to organize this, that's for sure. Good luck to all those that are taking on this tremendous task. You probably won't be able to make everyone happy, but I'm sure you'll do the best that you can.
  7. RockStar

    RockStar Well-Known Member

    Nah, spreading games over two days just delays the time to the post-game drinking!

    My thoughts are as long as it's not going to be more than five-30 minute games for any team, try to get the games done on a single day.
  8. Hooligan

    Hooligan Average Joe Millionaire

    So far everyone has been very helpful! Thanks to all those who have submitted ideas and suggestions so far! I know I haven't gotten back to all of you, so I just wanted to let you all know that your comments and suggestions are all appreciated.

    Please keep them all coming. If you're planning on playing in 2006, you may want to use this thread as a place to put suggestions or "things you'd like to see or do" here, so we can possibly arrange them for you. Remember, this is your vacation and tournament too. We all live here in Philly, and have done all the things you wish to do. We don't know whats fun here anymore... :rotfl:

    Thanks again, and keep 'em comin!

  9. JareCanada

    JareCanada New Member

    Since it's a non contact co-ed tournament.

    I know this may ruffle some feathers but, hear me out.

    As the title suggests, this is to be a non-contact tournament accept stick checks. Since there is no need for full contact gear to be worn, I suggest that the only equipment allowed is helmets and gloves and small hockey or volleyball style elbow pads in case you fall. Goalies are the exception obviously.

    Also, on the co-ed part of the tournament, for every game regardless of playoffs or prelim's there is at least on female player on the floor at all times.

    The other alternative is to have a 2 division tournament. The "Fun" division where there is no stick checking, one women on the floor at all times and is for beginners or those who don't have the speed of the younge bucks.

    The second, call it the "Stick Check" division where there is stick checking, and you can wear all the equipment you want. In this case you can place your team in the division you see fit.

    Having a two division tourny would give those who want intense competition what they want, and give those who just want to hack around and learn the game what they want too.

    I had a great time this year and will play in whatever format is used. Also I'm not throwing daggers or pointing any fingers, my words are basically in response to feedback I heard from people on all 6 teams.

    What does everyone else think and how would they do it differently?
  10. Hittrain

    Hittrain New Member

    Two Days Format???

    My 2 cents -

    I thought the format this tournament was GREAT!!! Except for the heat, the format was smooth and flowed well. It gave me enough time to get gear off and rest between most games and by ending around 7, I had enough time to rest up and party it up a bit. Having to play for two days would be more difficult on travel and the benefits outweigh the burdens, in my opinion.

    As for the equipment rules - I think protective gear should be allowed as players choose. While the tournament is "no contact", inadvertant sticks and body parts happen; players should be able to wear the protection they want.

    I think the most important improvement this year were the refs. I don't know if Philly (or any US team) could duplicate the refs we had, but they made the games flow VERY smoothly and the loose ball calls made for better possessions and less "fighting" along the boards.

    PHilly I know you guys are going to do GREAT!

  11. RockStar

    RockStar Well-Known Member

    ^^For a stick check tourney, no one should need any equipment except for helmet, facemask, gloves and cup. (Sadly, many defensemen have lousy stick control and/or too much aggression making armpads also semi-necessary.)

    As far as taking stick checking out of the tourney - Nay! Without that, it starts to look too much like an intramural Swedish Intercrosse league, and we simply can't allow that! :rotfl:

    Think refs just need to call stick-to-body contact vigorously (they did most of the day), and call reckless stick checking as slashing even if it doesn't connect.
  12. newlaxfan2

    newlaxfan2 New Member

    I like the idea of limiting equipment. I know from hockey that once players start wearing more and more equipment, the more physical the game becomes. I can't imagine it would be any different in lax.

    And I agree with 'Train about the refs. I thought they did a great job and really kept the flow of the game moving, and helped keep temper flareups under control.
  13. JareCanada

    JareCanada New Member

    Great points on everyone's part.

    Hit, and 666, the Roadies practiced with players from the Tutes and North and we practiced hard. Rarely did we have issues with incidental stick contact and no one was wearing arm pads or rib guards.

    New's point is bang on, if you are wearing equipment you feel safer, and as a result play a little more intensely. Not that intense play is wronge, but in a tournament that has people playing who are brand new to the game. They simply are overwelmed, and without the extra protection you play hard but more carefully.

    What I see, and granted I'm a newbie, is players who have attended the FC since the beginning have naturally progressed and evolved into better lacrosse players. My suggestion is two divisions to encourage that evolution while enabling newbies like myself to get a chance to step on the floor with people of their calibre and have some fun.

    The vetran FC'ers simply have gotten better because of hard work and practice and that should not be consequenced. A two division tourny could a/ happen in one day, and b/ make everyone happy. The vets get the level of intensity they need to have fun and the newbies get a chance to run up and down the floor realizing how tough the game really is.

    Hey this is only input, and take it as you will. I just see the FC growing and I would like to see part of it stay true to it's roots. That being giving people a chance to play the game that may not otherwise.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2005
  14. JohnnyMogul

    JohnnyMogul Active Member

    My two cents... (damn we must be up to at least a buck fifty by now.)

    I go smacked in the head by a stray stick so many damn times it wasn't funny. Now, that's why you wear a helmet. I also got twacked in the arms just as many times. Did they mean it? No, Did it make me go crashing all over the place, no. Now is there a need for rib pads, probably not... but, who is going to take the liability when someone takes an accidental chop and breaks an arm. Hey, "stuff" happens. I think you should wear what you want.

    I do agree the refs did excellent this year and controlled agressive play. The tournament was awesome, but boy did it wear you out. Personally, It ain't broke, don't fix it.
  15. JareCanada

    JareCanada New Member

    A chop that breaks your arm! Yeaooo

    John, that's my point exactly, you should not be hacked or even run the risk of being hacked in a tourny like the Fann Cup.

    This takes me back to the two division thing. The Fann Cup started out as a "friendly". Rochester fans got together with Toronto fans, they played for a while and then partied. It was all in fun. Now the FC has evolved. I saw two sides of the FC. The prelims where the games were really fun. Then the playoffs, intensity and compitition definitely got cranked up a few notches. Personally, being an old football player I loved that feeling again, but as I said before some of the players on the teams felt a little overwelmed. FC isn't about intense competition is about friendly competition.

    I know I'm advocating hard for the two tier system, for safety and parity.
    Here's were the need for a two division tourny really became evident to me. I was in the penalty box during the final game, waiting to present the Fann Cup when someone suggested we go to no stick checking. There was a player serving a penalty who over heard the comment and said. "No stick checking, what are you talking about, this is lacrosse!" The person who made the original comment replied "Not for this type of tournament, your missing the whole point of the Fann Cup" of course I piped up and said, "This is supposed to be for fun man"

    John it concerns me you would be worried that some would accidently take a chop so hard it would break someone's arm. That's just to intense for the FC as far as I'm concerned, there are people who either have never played before or haven't for years. For someone like that to run up against someone playing with that intensity is simply too dangerous. You have to start thinking about the real safety of the players. Don't you agree?

    For people to be hacking that hard is no accident, they are uncontrolled. They a/ obviously have a stick control problem as well as other control problems and b/ are playing a little to intensely, I mean really it's the Fann Cup and it's for bragging rights, that's all.

    I'm still sold on a two division tourny with 4 teams in each division. Each team in each division playes the other teams within their division. Then divisional playoffs. Play in a double rink somewhere in the burbs of Philly and we'll haver done in a day.

    I guess what I'm saying if you feel the need to wear equipment let's make a division that you will need to. Permitting aggressive stick checking and full out play. The other division doesn't even need to have a tournament format, just play a bunch of friendly's with the winningest team being bought their first round of beer by the loosing teams.

    Regardless of the format or any rule modifications, the real benefactor will be the Philly charity who gets the donation from the FC 06 and their festivities.

    I can't wait to see the sights and party with everyone in Philly. Last time I was down Mother Nature decided to cancel the lacrosse game I was supposed to see...anyone remember that?

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2005
  16. phiwings

    phiwings Active Member

    personally i like it the way it is. i'm not a great player, and being forced to play with players who are way above my talent level simply because i want to compete or wear certain types of protective equipment is unfair. i know this is a fun tourney, and trust me i had a blast, but the equipment i wear is for my protection. i got injured badly at one "practice" because i wasn't wearing rib guards. was it a stick check? nope. i got nailed on the follow-through of a shot someone was taking. it left a large, ugly bruise on my back at my right kidney for about three weeks. ever since then, whenever i pick up my stick to play pick-up, i wear arm guards and rib guards. i'm not looking to get injured again. people should be allowed to wear whatever protective equipment they want. we shouldn't create a second-tier because people want to wear arm or rib guards. if it makes them feel safer, then they should be allowed. they shouldn't be thrust into another level simply because they want to stay safe. this is a non-contact tournament, everyone knows that going in. however this is still lacrosse, we are human, and accidents still happen. i think its better to be safe then sorry.
  17. AlbanyFirelaxer

    AlbanyFirelaxer New Member

    The two division idea....

    Well here's the problem I see w/ having a division w/ no stick-checking..... Exactly what is going to prevent someone from running through and scoring left and right? Granted that division might have players of lesser calibre, but if you can't throw a few checks here and there, there's really no concept of defense.

    Stick checking to me is an accepted part of the game. People should wear armpads because when you're moving at speed and someone's trying for a poke check or slap check, sometimes you're going to miss. That's just the physics of the game. It's unavoidable.

    What really needs to be done is making sure that the checking is under control and I think the refs did a great job of that. Even checks that I thought were clean and all stick were automatically called if one-handed or near someone's head. Hell I even got admonished for poking at someone's bottom hand because I wasn't getting stick to stick contact. (Which drove me crazy, but hey them's the rules)

    I think the second biggest problem w/ the idea is the goalie situation. Across a couple of Fann Cups now we've shared goalies between teams (Like Hittrain) or had players transfer from one team to another (Like Meathead). If we start fielding competitive and non-competitve divisions and possibly push up the number of teams, there's inevitiably going to be a goalie shortage... and asking those guys to play one game after another is not an option especially in 30 pounds of pads in sweatshop arenas that we tend to play in. But if we can find that many willing goalies, then hey.... why not I guess.

    Overall I thought everyone played well and people who weren't up to par weren't really assaulted by those who could play. I know there were a few exceptions but for the most part play went well. Of course it's just my opinion and I'm definitely open to everyone else's.
  18. Goose4lax

    Goose4lax Active Member

    The great debates have begun. And I bet they will continue until next Fann Cup. My suggestion is for Philly to get their organizers together, consult with one or two reps from each team/city and finalize things so they agree and stick to their guns if you don't like it then organize your own and may the best man win.

    Fann Cup is young and has many years of growing left. My take is that 3 cities have hosted the event so far and all have done a tremendous job and put tons of time into this endevor. These organizers if they can should get together and be the "Executive Board" of Fann Cup and asssit Philly in '06 and all other cities in the future. Players and others can make their suggestions to the Executive Board who will then make a decision.

    This will allow a little more continuity through the years and to reduce the work load on everyone.


    PS- having officals was a great thing, they keep things flowing and kept everything undercontrol. The kids on the scoreboard and clock were great too.
  19. JohnnyMogul

    JohnnyMogul Active Member

    JAre you miss read me... it doesn't take much to fracture an arm... it could be an innocent thing.. (specially my bony *** arms...) I just don't think there is that big of a problem... I think we're trying too hard to tweak things... let it go...

    Again, just my opinion. WOrking too hard on defining rules, less on having more fun... like a "skills contest" or something like that.
  20. SteenhuisOwns09

    SteenhuisOwns09 New Member

    Just a thought...

    If you removed seeding for the playoffs, that might solve the problems. Play the round robin as nothing more than a couple games to get everyone started and have fun. Then do a random draw for playoff spots, and then a more competitive style of play will be allowed.

    My line of thought is that if the round robin games are basically meaningless to the eventual playoff, maybe there wouldn't be as much "aggressive" play. Just play for bragging rights. It's all meaningless in the end anyways. Having fun is what's important.
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