ILIndoor NLL Top 50 (Pre-2014)

Discussion in 'ILIndoor Forum' started by Vin, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    ILIndoor has started its annual list of the top 50 players in the NLL. So we have a quick single repository, I'll keep updating this post with each player as announced and include a hyperlink to his article. (I'll be gone for an extended period soon, but I'll try to keep up.)

    ILIndoor NLL Top 50 (Pre-2014)
    1. Shawn Evans, F, Calgary Roughnecks (F 03 JAN 2014)
    2. Cody Jamieson, F, Rochester Knighthawks (R 02 JAN 2014)
    3. Rhys Duch, F, Vancouver Stealth (W 01 JAN 2014)
    4. Kyle Rubisch, D, Edmonton Rush (T 31 DEC 2013)
    5. John Grant Jr., F, Colorado Mammoth (M 30 DEC 2013)
    6. Curtis Dickson, F, Calgary Roughnecks (F 27 DEC 2013)
    7. Garrent Billings, F, Toronto Rock (W 25 DEC 2013)
    8. Jeff Shatler, F, Calgary Roughnecks (M 23 DEC 2013)
    9. Matt Vinc, G, Rochester Knighthawks (F 20 DEC 2013)
    10. Colin Doyle, F, Toronto Rock (W 18 DEC 2013)
    11. Brodie Merrill, T, Philadelphia Wings (M 16 DEC 2013)
    12. Dane Dobbie, F, Calgary Roughnecks (F 13 DEC 2013)
    13. Ryan Benesch, F, Buffalo Bandits (W 11 DEC 2013)
    14. Tyler Richards, G, Vancouver Stealth (M 09 DEC 2013)
    15. Callum Crawford, F, Minnesota Swarm (F 06 DEC 2013)
    16. Adam Jones, F, Colorado Mammoth (W 04 DEC 2013)
    17. Jordan MacIntosh, T, Minnesota Swarm (M 02 DEC 2013)
    18. Andrew Suitor, T, Minnesota Swarm (F 29 NOV 2013)
    19. Dan Dawson, F, Rochester Knighthawks (W 27 NOV 2013)
    20. Mark Matthews, F, Edmonton Rush (M 25 NOV 2013)
    21. John Tavares, F, Buffalo Bandits (F 22 NOV 2013)
    22. Geoff Snider, T, Calgary Roughnecks (W 20 NOV 2013)
    23. Kevin Crowley, F, Philadelphia Wings (M 18 NOV 2013)
    24. Chris Corbeil, D, Edmonton Rush (F 15 NOV 2013)
    25. Mike Grimes, D, Vancouver Stealth (W 13 NOV 2013)
    26. Brandon Miller, G, Philadelphia Wings (M 11 NOV 2013)
    27. Josh Sanderson, F, Toronto Rock (F 08 NOV 2013)
    28. Casey Powell, F, Colorado Mammoth (W 06 NOV 2013)
      Currently, not expected to play as of 15 DEC 2013.
    29. Mark Steenhuis, T, Buffalo Bandits (M 04 NOV 2013)
    30. Scott Ranger, F, Calgary Roughnecks (F 01 NOV 2013)
    31. Shawn Williams, F, Buffalo Bandits (W 30 OCT 2013)
    32. Corey Small, F, Edmonton Rush (M 28 OCT 2013)
    33. Kyle Sorensen, D, Vancouver Stealth (F 25 OCT 2013)
    34. Cory Vitarelli, F, Rochester Knighthawks (W 23 OCT 2013)
    35. Ryan Ward, F, Edmonton Rush (M 21 OCT 2013)
      With Philadelphia Wings as of 03 DEC 2013.
    36. Jeff Gilbert, D, Minnesota Swarm (F 18 OCT 2013)
    37. Drew Westervelt, F, Colorado Mammoth (W 16 OCT 2013)
    38. Jeff Moleski, D, Vancouver Stealth (M 14 OCT 2013)
    39. Kevin Ross, F, Philadelphia Wings (F 11 OCT 2013)
    40. Stephan Leblanc, F, Toronto Rock (W 09 OCT 2013)
    41. Brett Mydske, D, Edmonton Rush (M 07 OCT 2013)
    42. Sid Smith, D, Rochester Knighthawks (F 04 OCT 2013)
    43. Tyler Hass, T, Minnesota Swarm (W 02 OCT 2013)
    44. Johnny Powless, F, Rochester Knighthawks (M 30 SEP 2013)
    45. Lewis Ratcliffe, F, Vancouver Stealth (F 27 SEP 2013)
    46. Kiel Matisz, F, Minnesota Swarm (W 25 SEP 2013)
    47. Rory Smith, D, Buffalo Bandits (M 23 SEP 2013)
    48. Jesse Gamble, T, Toronto Rock (F 20 SEP 2013)
    49. Brad Self, T, Rochester Knighthawks (W 18 SEP 2013)
    50. Aaron Bold, G, Edmonton Rush (M 16 SEP 2013)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2014
  2. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    How many of these 50 players will be offensive players
  3. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    Assuming equal quality of worth of runners and goalies, a good guess 83.33% (= 5/6) which would imply 41 or 42 would be runners with the remaining 8 or 9 being goalies. Furthermore, assuming that, of the standard 5 runners on the floor at any time, 2 are defense, 1 is transition, and 2 are offense, then the net estimate is:
    D: 16 or 17
    O: 16 or 17
    T: 8 or 9
    G: 8 or 9

    Despite their offensive prowess, I think transition guys are usually considered as defensemen, so, to answer your question, go with the "O" figure of 16 or 17.
  4. dougm

    dougm Well-Known Member

    my number of wings on top 50...

    brandon miller
    brodie merrill
    kevin crowley
    and my surprise selection for top 50.....
    joel white
  5. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    So I did some math and here are the % of players playing each position

    Goalies = 5 goalies
    O Players = 19 offensive players
    Transition = 10 transition players
    D Players = 17 defensive players

    With all the rounding that came up to 51 players, but according to the NLL and the rosters at the end of the season with an even balance of each position in the top 50 we should see numbers right around these.x
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2013
  6. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, to me, that seems a little more intuitive than the numbers I had but I started with a straight assumption based-off of typical floor proportions:
    1 G : 1 T : 2 D : 2 O =
    16.67% G : 16.67% T : 33.33% D : 33.33% O.
  7. That would then suggest all of the goalies would make the top 50, which obviously won't happen.

    Roughnecks for the list:
    Carnegie S.

    Those are my guys who make the list. With 9 teams that would average out to 5-6 per team so with 7 guys, I don't feel like I am that out of whack. My heart wants to put Ranger on the list as well but in this offense, he doesn't get the looks he might elsewhere.
  8. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    I had thought the same thing when I ran the numbers. Same with with transition. Still, just based on pure roster size, roughly one out of every four players throughout the NLL will make this list.
  9. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    This list should defiently be shorter with how many players are in the league if they had another 70-100 players it would make sense
  10. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    So with the stats I did if % of players in each position this is who I think would be on the list in no particular order

    Goalies - 5
    1.Aaron Bold
    2.Mike Poulin
    3.Matt Vinc
    4.Tyler Richards
    5.Brandon Miller

    Transition - 10
    1. Jessie Gamble
    2. Brodie Merril
    3. Andrew Suitor
    4. Jordan MacItosh
    5. Brock Sorenson
    6. Mark Steenhuis
    7. David Brock
    8. Jordan Hall
    9. Joel White
    10. Geoff Snider
    11. Kiel Matiz
    12. Jeremy Thompson

    Defense - 17
    1. Rory Smith
    3. Brad Self - Rocherstor had him listed as a D player
    3. Kyle Rubisch
    4. Brett Mysdke
    5. Kyle Sorenson
    6. Steve Priolo
    7. Mike Kirk
    8. Paul Dawson
    9. Sandy Chapman
    10. Patrick Merrill
    11. Scott Carnegie
    12. Dan Cotes
    13. Mac Allen
    14. Jeff Gilbert
    15. Jeff Moleski

    Offensive - 19
    1. John Grant Jr
    2. Garret Billings
    3. Rhys Duch
    4. Colin Doyle
    5. Cody Jamiseon
    6. Curtis Dickson
    7. Shawn Evans
    8. Dane Dobbie
    9. Kevin Crowely
    10. Mark Matthews
    11. Callum Crawford
    12. Ryan Benesch
    13. Shawn Williams
    14. Dan Dawson
    15. Adam Jones
    16. Jeff Shatler
    17. Kevin Ross
    18. Lewis Ratcliff
    19. Gavin Prout

    Ended up going with 2 more transition players and 2 less defenders
  11. Corporal

    Corporal Active Member

    My guess for Swarm players on this list if they all don't get traded for first rounders in 2020 in the next couple weeks.

    Suitor - depends if they count the games missed due to injury and suspension (11 + 2 playoff games) and leave him off.
  12. RockStar

    RockStar Well-Known Member

    It's not a bad first try, but, it's skewed due to goalie getting just about 100% floor time.
    I'd look at goalies/roster size, at around 9%. Take this number, and maybe the top 4 in the league can/should make the top 50 list. Even that's high-ish, because that's edging towards half of the starting goalie class, and we're only looking at a quarter of the starting runner class.

    Keep it to no more than 3 or 4 goalies.

    Other than that, I don't find this list very interesting. The only points that are even debatable are

    -the order of players relative to each other (and who really frigging cares except within the top 20 or so?), and,

    -the outside edge (and, is it worth arguing about whether XYZ second tier star ranked lower than 50 should bump ABC second tier star out of a 41 to 50 spot?)

    I wish there was something to watch other than NHL preseason, so I could ignore this. Better still, I wish I actually had a life..........:D
  13. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I believe that was something that boxlaxgoalie was asserting and I agreed with. Since I didn't have a roster census on-hand and wasn't going to spend the time to build one, I did that first pass guess.
  14. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    With 15 announced of the 50 players over the past 5 weeks, we are 30% of the way there.

    Of those 15:
    • 6 are offensive players (40.00%)
    • 5 are defensive players (33.33%)
    • 3 are transition players (20.00%)
    • 1 is a goalie (6.67%)
    Using those numbers as a baseline estimate, we are looking at an estimate of the Top 50 consisting of:
    • 20 offensive players
    • 16 or 17 defensive players
    • 10 transition players
    • 3 or 4 goalies
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  15. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    Kinda of surprised Corey small made the list as they usually keep players off who are injuried for the season
  16. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    Halfway done....

    Nice to see wily veteran Brandon Miller get picked on Veteran's Day. I very much liked him as a backup to Blasdell when he was in Albany and thought he could have been a starter even then.

    Anyway, we now have 25 of the Top 50. Here's the breakdown:
    By position:
    G: 2
    T: 4
    D: 6
    O: 13

    By team:
    BUF: 3
    CGY: 1
    COL: 2
    EDM: 4
    MIN: 3
    PHI: 2
    ROC: 4
    TOR: 3
    VAN: 3
  17. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger Member

    Honestly, how is Sid Smith a top 50 player? He's terrible. No transition/offensive game to speak of, immobile, average man on man defender, below average loose baller. He's easily the worst first overall pick since Delby Powless. The only reason he has so many championships is because he always happens to be on teams where other players can carry him.
  18. Vin

    Vin Well-Known Member

    We're down to 9 left....
    Besides Grant and Cody, who do you think will be in the remaining top spots?
  19. baron

    baron Member

    Here is a stab at this.... Rubisch from Edmonton, Evans and Dickson from Calgary, Vinc from Rochester, Duch from Vancouver, Billings from Toronto. I am at a loss for the last spot.
    Neither Poulin or Rose are on the list so it might be another goalie.
  20. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    From vin list can't seem to find Jeff Shatler on it he would be someone who should be in the top 10 as well

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