Whats Going On In BC

Discussion in 'Vancouver Ravens Forum' started by saugin, Nov 27, 2010.

  1. saugin

    saugin New Member

    Toronto and Vancouver are the hotbeds of lacrosse in Canada. It is ludicrous that there is no team in Vancouver, while Calgary and Edmonton have teams.
    That's nice but there has to be a team in Vancouver and soon.
    I've watched this game for 55 years, and remember the Mann cup in Port Credit and the appearance of the great Jack Bionda.
    Lacrosse is incomplete without BC representation.
     
  2. Wings-4-Life

    Wings-4-Life Well-Known Member

    They tried. It failed. They might try again.


    /thread.
     
  3. saugin

    saugin New Member

    I'd love to hear some comments from BC residents. Canadian box players are primarily from BC & Ontario.
    As I recall attendance wasn't bad when the team folded.
    Failure is not an option. Witness Peterborough & New Westminster Mann Cup or even Brampton & New Westminster.
    BC & Ont. is where the real rivalry is for Canadians.
     
  4. Wings-4-Life

    Wings-4-Life Well-Known Member

    It wasn't terrible attendance, but not too good either.

    You might have to wait a while for the locals. They don't seem to frequent the boards too often anymore, but there's probably some fans of the Canadian leagues that will have more input.
     
  5. saugin

    saugin New Member

    I appreciate your response, but am surprised no Canadian response yet. I know Jack Bionda was an Ontario boy and the Port Credit Mann Cup was a long time ago but I still see many fans my age at Brampton, Brooklin and Peterborough games.
     
  6. Jimbo

    Jimbo New Member

    Sauginres, it sounds like we come from the same era-I can recall the 1968 pro league with 2 teams from Van plus Victoria and Portland, which was really Coquitlam...as well as our teams down here.

    I hate to say it, but I'm thinking that Vancouver isn't as good a sports city as we'd all like to believe...remember, the Memphis Grizzlies of the NBA weren't "born" there.

    OK west coast-flame away!
     
  7. MCO Titans

    MCO Titans Banned

    If your willing to take on some debt, I know where you can an NLL franchise for about half the league's new franchise fee and move it to Vancouver. :D

    Attendance was not a big issue down here in Orlando either considering they stopped marketing after the first game and never really marketed the team at all to the local community. You need an owner who is in it for the long haul rather than someone who gets tired of their Christmas toy in a few years. That and a cheap stadium deal in the Vancouver area could probably make it work.
     
  8. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    Attendance wasn't the problem; paying attendance however was.

    The Ravens gave away a lot of freebies and $10 upper bowl tickets in the first season. Great way to put bums in the seats except when the new owner tried to hike up ticket prices the following season, a lot of the casual fans disappeared.

    And speaking of ownership... that was another huge problem. People with good and not so good intentiosn but not one with any cash to spend.

    So biggest problems with the NLL returning are:

    1) suitable, cheap arena - something lacking in Vancouver
    2) owners with deep pockets - something lacking in Vancouver

    Also... while Vancouver may have a reputation as a good lacrosse town, I'm not so sure it is a good NLL lacrosse town. I do recall a lot of the old dinosaurs and others here poo-pooing about the NLL as "American bastard lacrosse" and the like. Granted the WLA doesn't take the town by fire, but amongst many of the direhard fans and WLA dinoasurs, the NLL is always going to be judged against the CLA game and the NLL thought of as being a lesser game. Not my opinion - but just something I heard and observed back when we had an NLL team.
     
  9. saugin

    saugin New Member

    This old OLA dinosaur loves the NLL, especially what they did concerning the penalty/shot clock situations. Think that makes for more goals and less misconducts.
     
  10. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    It's been so long now since I saw an NLL game that I've forgotten the differences in game flow. I need to get down to Everett sometime to catch a game.

    However the removal of the ragging game is one aspect of the NLL I really dislike - mostly because I prefer a defensive game over a goalfest be it NLL, WLA, or Snr B, or whatever.
     
  11. saugin

    saugin New Member

    Before I come back at you with the ''ragging'' situation, next post, I would by all means get to Everest to see a game.
    Looks like a beautiful little arena, (about 8,600 capacity) and a great team.
     
  12. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    I would actually like to hear what you have to say about ragging. I guess I have seen (and worse, been burnt) firsthand where ragging has won games. It just adds another element to expand the defensive game and makes the powerplay/shortman game more interesting.

    I can see why ragging was removed from the NLL game - which has been designed to attract American fans. I don't know of any American sports that seem to appreciate defense... the psyche south of the 49th is all about goals goals goals...
     
  13. saugin

    saugin New Member

    I agree and thats why soccer will never really catch on in the US. Its called the beautiful game, I call it the frustrating game.
    Run all the way down the field, lose the ball and run all the way back.
    Leave the game telling everyone it was great, the score was 1-0.
    Goals is what it is about. Perfect lacrosse score, 11-9.
    I'll get back to you on my ''ragging'' argument.
     
  14. Metalhead

    Metalhead New Member

    I couldn't tell you exactly what the problem is but Vancouver really is not a sports town. I'm quite surprised the MLS is moving to Vancity to be honest, but I guess it's a more diverse fan base that's easier to draw from. Maybe that's the problem, lacrosse isn't known as a game played by other ethnic backgrounds so it's hard for anybody to care. Even the WLA fans are few and far between, I don't know why though.

    For me, I really have a small casual interest in lacrosse at all nowadays. Hell, I was drafted to the WLA, played Senior B, coached Intermediate A, and I really don't give a crap about lacrosse anymore. I only like looking up stats of guys I played with and guys I coached, other than that, I have no interest.

    I love this game, but for whatever reason am not a fan of watching. Why would I go to Rogers Arena, pay $8 for a beer, hang out with a bunch of kids and their parents, and watch what is quite frankly, a dull game. Where did the hitting go? It's like they took out the hitting when they made the nets bigger.

    I dunno...
     
  15. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    This. Demographics. It completely explains why Vancouver, a city of 578,000 inside its city limits, can only draw 250-350 kids into its minor lacrosse ranks while smaller communities like Maple Ridge (pop. 69,000) can draw twice as many if not more. Lacrosse is now a sport played out in the suburbs. All the kids that grew up playing lacrosse in East Vancouver in the 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980s, etc have since moved out to the 'burbs' to raise their families because of the high cost of living in the city.

    The population demographic group *cough* Asians *cough* that moved into the city during the late 1980s and 1990s has no link to a game that has zero media precense or awareness now. The handful of Asians that do play lacrosse are almost all come from westernised second or third generation families that came to the city before or immediately after the second world war.

    MLS soccer will do VERY well in Vancouver - because of the ethnic fanbase it will appeal to.
     
  16. saugin

    saugin New Member

    Ragging
    To start the argument.
    Team A gets penalty for holding Team B.
    Ref. says bad boy, your team plays shorthanded for 2 mins. but look, its not all that bad, if you get the ball you can hog it for 2 minutes.
    Never made any sense to me.
    Have some other observations but have to leave it to later.
     
  17. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    OK... so my line of thinking in regards to ragging is:

    What is wrong with hogging the ball for 2 minutes if you are down a man? If the other team - which has an extra player - is unable to get the ball back, then that is their (the 5-on-4 team's) problem... not the problem of the team down a man. If the shorthanded team is able to maintain possession with less players, why should they be then essentially penalised again when they just have to cough the ball over when the shot-clock end? That logic does not make sense to me. Ragging forces weak or lazy teams to work to get the ball back when they already have an advantage (the extra man).
     
  18. saugin

    saugin New Member

    Penalties

    The true logic is the player who gets the penalty sits out the 2 minutes, both teams remain at full strength.
    You and I are never going to agree on this and actually one way is as good as the other.
    But the NLL wants goals and so do I. 17-15 beats 6-4 in my books. and I get to see the Grants & Sandersons perform their magic.
    And there are fewer game ending dustups when the ref calls a penalty in a close match.
     
  19. Bones

    Bones New Member

    The Vancouver "issue" is as follows IMHO.

    1. Venue. Cannot afford Rogers Arena unless the Aquilinis buy the NLL franchise. need to look at the Pacific Coliseum which might mean getting Toigo interested. Otherwise look at Langley or Abbotsford arenas where the demographics are better.
    2. Deep pockets. Mayenecht never had the cash to take the necessary hit for the first 3 yrs. You have to be prepared to take a loss for a while and with Stadnick and Reinhardt bailing he did not have the pockets.
    3. Marketing. There were largely only minor lax and amateur lax players and families in the crowd when the Ravens were here. Need to get a whole New market of people in the seats.
    4. Buying Tix. Many people who knew the coaches or management or players felt entitled to freebies. I bought 4 season tix each year. We need to buy tix.
    5. Sports Town? Vancouver is a great sports town. Canucks have the longest standing streak of consecutive sell outs in the NHL. Lions draw well. MLS will be amazing. Oh yeah didn't we just host one he'll of an Olympics??

    In the end I would like to see George Daniel aggressively pursue either the Aquillinis or the Toigos to purchase a franchise bfor the Canucks it would not compete at all with their ticket base and for the Giants it is the same market. You could add on 8 NLL games to the Giants season ticket package for less than 200 bucks more. No brained? I dunno. Seems so.
     
  20. saugin

    saugin New Member

    What is the seating capacity of each arena. I agree with you about Vancouver being a good sports city.
    Too many BC players playing elsewhere when they probably would rather be playing at home.
     

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