WHL Giants possibly relocating to the LEC....

Discussion in 'Vancouver Stealth Forum' started by Rottenrocker, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Rottenrocker

    Rottenrocker Member

  2. KHawkTobey

    KHawkTobey Member

    That or to Winnipeg. With the success the Rush are having in Saskatoon the league is going to take a good long look at central Canada for a new or relocated franchise.
     
  3. nickp91

    nickp91 New Member

    Giants have long blocked attempts to put lacrosse into Pacific Coliseum
     
  4. Rottenrocker

    Rottenrocker Member

    The thing is that I don't want Vancouver to lose it's 2nd NLL franchise. I want the Stealth here in B.C.
     
  5. New Fan

    New Fan Member

    If the Vancouver Giants do move to Langley don't see Stealth going to the pacific colosseum. Lacrosse is just not being supported in B.C. As you can see with the less than 4,000 fans per game. Location has not the problem in Langley just the fickle fans of the lower mainland of B.C. Can see the Stealth franchise being in trouble and moving to a market like Winnipeg.
     
  6. Rottenrocker

    Rottenrocker Member

    You'd think that the lax fans would embrace the Stealth but of course they don't due to very shallow excuses including location, ticket prices, etc. If the Stealth do relocate it's the fans that have only themselves to blame for it.
     
  7. mtbf

    mtbf Well-Known Member

    Not ever winning at home might have something to do with it
     
  8. Rottenrocker

    Rottenrocker Member

    Oh I know that doesn't help matters either. It's just so frustrating with the talent pool they can draw from here.
     
  9. Rick716

    Rick716 Active Member

    The Stealth are in a building that holds 5276. Are expenses cheap enough that they can survive drawing 3500? The Stealth attendance has been pretty consistent so during their first 3 seasons

    2016--3,783 (so far)
    2015--3,734
    2014--3,590

    With home games coming up against Toronto, Calgary, and Saskatchewan, it's possible they could increase their final average for the second consecutive season. I'm looking for a small positive here for the franchise. I'd like to see the NLL keep a team in Vancouver. I know it's a small number, but the overall capacity is small, so they have to know that even if they had 5000 per game, they would be last in attendance. Are the arena expenses cheap enough that they can break even on 3,500-4,000?
     
  10. wacklax

    wacklax Member

    From what I hear, yes at 4000. Light losses at 3500.
     
  11. laxboxgoalie

    laxboxgoalie New Member

    The reason why the Giants want to move are almost the exact same reason why the Stealth are failing. Both teams suck at the moment and the giants have for the last couple of years. Both marketing teams sucks the Giants expect the fans to show up because they used to be good and there an WHL hockey team. Where the Stealth marketing team/management seem to expect that lacrosse fans are going to show up because its pro lacrosse.

    Why should we be shocked with the crowds that are happening in the WLA on the mainland if you add all 5 teams home attendances up you might be getting 3500 fans. The stealth are average more fans to games than what the WLA teams can get out to an Mann Cup Series which is twice the lacrosse that the NLL is. The only time this might have been different would have been game 6/7 of the 2009 Mann Cups.

    If you just expect the lacrosse fans to show up this team will fail they need to get the people who haven't been involved with lacrosse to show up.
     
  12. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    During the Ravens' first season, it was pretty clear at the time that more fans were attending than all the WLA teams combined over the same scheduling period = non-lacrosse people did attend the Ravens games. Whether through legit ticket sales or padded by freebies, non-lacrosse people attended in fairly large numbers back in 2002-03 range.

    Non-lacrosse people aren't going to drive out to the burbs to watch a sport they aren't familiar with. So in that regards, the LEC is a bad location - especially if bridge tolls are involved.

    That said, I really don't know if Pacific Coliseum would be much of an improvement. City of Vancouver itself is a lacrosse graveyard. Stealth also need to find out where their fanbase (both season ticket base and casual ticket buyers) resides.

    Honestly, the team (and league) needs to also look at why lacrosse people in Greater Vancouver are not attending. Location is probably a minor factor. Because of the cheaper and in many ways better summerball option, this market will always be a tough sell for the NLL variant.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2016
  13. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    Last Saturday my work office was given 14 free tickets to one of the box suites at the Stealth game. Out of an office of approx. 65 staff, I managed to get 7 people to attend (with spouses-family taking 6 of the 7 remaining seats, we had 1 no show). All, apart from myself and my wife, reside south of the Fraser. No one living north of the Fraser was interested in making the trek out there for a sport they were unfamiliar with. So if I cannot convince non-lacrosse people with the offer of free seats (in a box, to boot), does anyone think non-lacrosse fans are going to "all the way out to Langley?" if they have to pay.

    Point is: LEC is a terrible location for drawing non-lacrosse fans from Vancouver and north of the Fraser.
    Problem is: I would think that most of the Stealth's fanbase is suburban families, so would a move to Pacific Coliseum actually make any difference when closer to the part of the city oblivious to the sport?
     
  14. fadlaxdad

    fadlaxdad Member

    IMHO the NLL fan atmosphere does not re-create well with the Vancouver crowd. For the most part - the core fan base of the Stealth are knowledgeable lacrosse fans. They do not need loud music, banging drums and an MC who screams at them to enjoy the game. The Vancouver market is fickle. The game does not have much appeal for the Asian and Indo-Canadian population either. BC has a rich heritage of Indo-Canadian lacrosse players who have made their mark in the WLA. Attend any Canucks game and you will see the cross-cultural diversity of the city well represented in the hockey crowd.

    The Stealth organization needs to invest in marketing that is specifically aimed at drawing hockey fans away from the Canucks. I do not see any kind of Canucks/Stealth partnership in the cards for the future - so I say go after that fan base. Hockey can not compete with lacrosse for sport entertainment value. Don't most of us fall asleep watching hockey?
     
  15. Vin

    Vin Active Member

    It isn't just the location why those people don't go. It is simply lack of respect for the sport. When someone doesn't respect it, they don't have an open mind and won't bother going. It's one reason why women's sports have attendance issues. Geez, in Buffalo, I knew people who wouldn't try to see a Bandits game; an excellent seat during winning seasons was maybe $30, yet nose-bleeds for the Sabres were near a $100. Those folks would rather fork over the $100 nose-bleed seats because it's the NHL. It doesn't matter if it is overpriced boring crap - it's the NHL and people think "Since so many other people like the NHL, I guess I should too. Go team!".

    ...and it is for this reason that Saskatchewan is doing well. It had a minor-league self-esteem issue. The NLL comes in - the top-tier league in a Canadian-original sport - thus providing respect for Saskatchewan, and the locals are thankful for that respect and return it in-turn and give the NLL a try... and are rewarded with a good $ value experience with a winning team to-boot. Thank God for the local press going well above-average for that team. Whoever is doing the Rush coverage in Saskatoon deserves the Borrelli Media Award this year. This is exactly what happened in San Antonio in 1973 with the Spurs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2016
  16. RockStar

    RockStar Well-Known Member

    You are aware that you have a minority opinion?

    Yes you are. At least implicitly :)

    The high cost barrier is somewhat irrelevant as well.......the games I want to see are either on TV, or it takes less than five minutes to find a high quality legitimate or pirate webfeed. The sport is accessible, shows alright on TV, and, lots of people like it. Many things that the NLL is not.

    The NLL could take major strides to fix the way the sport looks on TV, and to get it onto better media outlets, but........I lose a little faith every week that these tired old 18 game seasons drag on......
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2016
  17. Rottenrocker

    Rottenrocker Member

    The Giants will be holding a press conference at the LEC tomorrow. So it looks like they're moving and leaving the Pacific Coliseum without a sports team tenant.
     
  18. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/05/02/vancouver-giants-langley-events-centre-announce-press-event-for-tuesday-whl-club-expected-to-move-from-pacific-coliseum-for-majority-of-schedule/

    If I were the Stealth, what I'd do is troll the comments section for The Province as well as the comments section for the same article posted on The Province's Facebook page and see what hockey fans think of the move. If people start saying they won't go out to Langley to watch the Giants, it does show what might also be on the minds of lacrosse fans.

    That said, I really don't know if the Stealth going to Pacific Coliseum will do much to help them. Most of the city's lacrosse fans don't live in the actual city.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2016
  19. RockStar

    RockStar Well-Known Member

    RE: Pacific Coliseum - I just had a flyby courtesy of google sattelite.

    It looks central-ish, but, not anywhere nearly as close to the action as Rogers Arena. Skytrain service a fair bit further away, Other than whatever nightlife may be on the PNE site, choices for dining and drinking look thin-ish.

    As Dave says, not even really in the centre of the BC lacrosse world.

    A solid team at a fair ticket price in the big league arena might increase sales, but, Would be somewhat surprised if a second tier arena in a non-perfect location drastically increases attendance.
     
  20. Dave S-C

    Dave S-C Active Member

    Skytrain isn't close but at least *still* an option + bus unlike zero transit outside of Langley to LEC. The advantage with the Coliseum is location close to the highway and no toll issues for those living north of the Fraser. On the flip, parking there is pay unlike free parking at LEC (when you can find parking). Not much post-game or drinking options in the area.

    What the Stealth really need to do is figure out where exactly their current fanbase resides and locate accordingly. Would also be smart for them to find out from the lacrosse community why folks in the lacrosse community aren't going to games, although fixing those issues would be out of their hands if it involves issues about the style of game, NLL style of game presentation, etc.

    Coliseum would give them more credibility in the media as to being a "Vancouver" team but it's tough to gauge whether the casual Vancouver fans, who would never think of going south of the Fraser to try out a lacrosse game, are even going to make an effort to go to the Coliseum either.
     

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